Reading in the Junior (and Middle School) and Senior High
Dr. Cris Crissman
ARCHIVE of FORUM 3 1/18/99
BACK
HOME
READ 5317
Reading in the Junior (and Middle School) and Senior High
Dr. Cris Crissman
Welcome to our virtual forum!
Paideia – An Idea Whose Time Has Come Again . . . .
It looks like we’re cutting-edge with our interest in Mortimer Adler’s Paideia Program. Marilyn Sheerer, Dean of the ECU School of Education, writes in her October 12th update that "Adler’s philosophy was actively promoted in the 80s; and, at the present time, it is being renewed and highlighted in our state. The National Paideia Center has moved from Chapel Hill to Greensboro, and its new leader, Terry Roberts, has been meeting with deans of education to discuss the use of the Paideia philosophy in reform efforts. One focus of the program is the Socratic seminar, a format that is especially useful for promoting dialogue among faculty and community partners."
There seems to be widespread interest across the content areas in the use of the Paideia or Socratic Method of Teaching. The guiding question is: Why is it important to open our minds to different points of view? To follow up on our class’s interest in this program, let’s check out the sites listed with our minds open to how we can use Paideia for our specific content area and for the general good of creating active, thoughtful learners. Then consider the following questions:
How can I use Paideia to contribute to the teaching of my content area?
How can Paideia help me contribute to the overall goals of educating a young person for life?
Is it possible to conduct a Paideia seminar on the web? What do you think? Are you game to try?
Return to our webforum and respond to these questions before we meet again on October 27. Then read the responses of our colleagues and respond in general or to anyone’s specific comment by November 2. Dianne, our resident Paideia mentor, will lead our class in a seminar soon, and, perhaps, we can arrange to try an online seminar, either real-time with a class from NCSU or virtual time among ourselves.
http://www.coe.wayne.edu/TSC/paideia.html
See the description of the K-12 Paideia program – National Paideia Center which was until recently located at UNC-Chapel Hill but is now in Greensboro (note research that middle school students in NC score higher on the writing test if they are Paideia-trained.)http://www.unc.edu/depts/ed/cel-paideia.html
Paideia National Center Homepage.http://www.unc.edu/paideia/
See the report on Githens in Durham which documented the rise in scores on the writing test
Check out Jack McCall’s six short pieces on the "Paideia Pie." Choose any one (or all) that appeal to you.
Check out the cost of implementation.
Check out the list of the schools in North Carolina – Guilford County Schools is the national leader.http://www.unc.edu/depts/ed/Paideia/paideia.html
Take a look at Chesser’s descriptions of seminars at your grade level.http://www-raider.stjohns.k12.fl.us/activities/paideia/paideia2.html
Check out the list of questions for the Paideia Seminar on Paideia.http://www.paideiaschool.org/library/hsreading4.htm
Take a look at the high school reading list for The Paideia School in Atlanta, GAPlease suggest any other Paideia sites you discover and think we might like to see.
Username: Cris Crissman
UserEmail: edcrissm@eastnet.ecu.edu
Hi Everyone, Sorry for delay. We had server problems and feared we'd lost the whole site. I found some interesting sites for our Paideia study. And it was good to see that the deans in the university system are rediscovering Paideia, too. Are we good, or what? One note to help -- when you go to Chesser's seminar descriptions, you will need to click on "Resources for Teaching" on the frame index to the left. Oh, and those activity cards for each of you are in the mail I am assured. Enjoy your research in the library or on the web. See you soon, Cris
Username: Eric
UserEmail: cebone@hotmail.com
Just a note before I begin to explore these sights. My kids seem to thrive on the fact that at the end of each unit we are going to do a seminar. They are always asking when we will have the next one. I am just starting to learn how to execute a proper seminar. I have done several and have a learning experience each time. I tend to learn just as much as the kids. Not to mention, the things you learn about your kids! What an exciting possibility to have a seminar over the web! I had not thought of that! I think it would be neat to try a seminar one evening just for fun in which my students could all get on line and participate. Many of them have access to the web and I bet they would be willing to give it a try! I love seminar and hope to soon learn more because when you are looking for active engagement I don't believe it gets much better than Paideia! Eric See you on the 27th.
Username: LaVette L. Ford
UserEmail: fordaka@aol.com
Paideia is a new term for me but it isn't a new concept. As Eric said earlier, this concept is so exciting to me. It really gets my blood rushing just to hear different people's perspective. It is amazing to hear responses from some people who never speak up. I think paideia is a great strategu that everyone can get involve. This also encourages students to really think before they speak. (Can't you just see what they are about to say before they even have a chance to say it?) Well, I'm off to the sites. I'll report back later.
LaVette
Username: Dianne R. Proctor
UserEmail: dproctor50@hotmail.com
The on-line seminar would be interesting to try. I'm game. Dianne Proctor
Username: Dianne R. Proctor
UserEmail: dproctor50@hotmail.com
The on-line seminar would be interesting to try. I'm game. Dianne Proctor
Username: dave munden
UserEmail: ?
Hi folks. My only chance to be online was ruined when my school lost its connection temporarily. It is a busy day here. I feel bad that I don't have access. This is a real problem when it is a problem, I'll tell you that.
more soon dave
Username: dave munden
UserEmail: dm50@edmail.com
Hi I'm at the public library about to dive into the paedeia sites...some bully is behind me breathing down my neck and it is scary.
Hope to return soon.
If you don't hear from me, call for hel........-=0-908//.>>
Username: dave munden
UserEmail: dm50@edmail.com
Hi. I just slurped up most of the sites above (except the grade level specific article, because all of a sudden, i got an acrobat reader icon and lots of churning in my hardrive tower [not good...means it wants to print out on papyrus]).
Very interesting, but let's not get carried away. Of course, we all do the didactic part of this program, and we all do a certain amount of coaching and modelling...and there is an element of seminar in some activities. What strikes me most is that writing and thinking comes from CONVERSATION...those face to face transactions that occur with people of like or different minds (but operate at similar pitches). This of course is essential, but I find what the biggest challenge is....how to motivate kids (that means, how do I relate something relevant or practical about what we're reading in class to what we're studying???). This is the real challenge. Motivation (not kicking ass, you understand) but finding something of relevance in material (content...be it math, or career explorations or Shakespeare or socio-economic surveys of ASIAn cULTURES which somehow makes our young audiences see the relevance in it for them (we of course as adults do this naturally)...but what about someone who has to be taught to do this? This is what motivation means to me, and I think this is what I keep thinking.
The pieces of the pie essays were nice, but this man was speaking to his own choir of experts. What do I do with my alternative kids at Phillips School in the cotton fields?
Yes, conversations and respectful discussion is essential to what we're up to, but that seems like to easy part. How to get them so they're willing to dredge up all their inner strength to defend their opinions?
I loved that dream of a school where guidance counselors and assistant principals were trained to facilitate seminars.
I just loved LOVED that. If just once a week, you came to school knowing you might end up with an assistant principal or curriculum supervisor as a facilitator in you seminar, it might just change the way things happen in schools.
Enough. I like the paedeia thing, but I keep seeing the sandaled, white robed Jesuses and Platos and Moseses discoursing under the elms (in the grove). Can we find something else to call it?
Also, that Greek root has the same pejorative connotations the word Pedagogy has taken on for me (bureaucratically required credits on a transcript which often mean nothing).
Well. See you manana.
dave
Username: Eric
UserEmail: cebone@hotmail.com
Well, after spending a few minutes in the dictionary trying to gain an understanding of what Dave was saying (sorry, no context clues were helpful!), I have this to say... I believe that the motivation develops as you begin to explore topics or literature. I have yet to see a seminar where kids did not point out the relevance to their lives. Once you begin to do seminars it is not difficult to steer them into these discussions of real world relevance and the impact it could have on them and society. I believe that you will find students very willing to defend their opinions and quite possibly change them, which is the beauty of seminar. By thinking critically about what they say students will begin to examine their beliefs and opinions and start to develop a sense of individuality as they defend those beliefs. See you tomorrow!
Username: Cris
UserEmail: edcrissm@eastnet.ecu.edu
OK, you guys, no dictionaries needed for this one. I have this image of Dave's "alternative kids at Phillips School in the cotton fields" and I can't help but wonder if many teachers of these kids in the past eight years have considered that they might benefit from serious discussions of real world relevance. Isn't discussion often reserved for those who have already proven mastery of basic skills? Aren't kids who are in "at-risk" situations usually skilled and drilled rather than than engaged in socially relevant discussions? It seems "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" when it comes to discussion as a tool for critical thinking and learning. I can't help but wonder where Dave's kids would be now if they had from the early grades experienced classroom cultures where their opinions were sought and respected. Sometimes it seems there's almost a caste system in our schools . . .
Username: Dave Munden
UserEmail: dm50@edmail.com
Hey I'm afraid I didn't engage all of you last night in my presentation. I think I wish I'd have played out just a portion of the story and had you start cutting and pasting.
In my mind, after we'd heard the story, I was going to have you break up into groups and do different parts of the story...so I'd have walked away with the entire story scripted for performance. I felt a little rushed and things didn't happen.... I hope you got the general idea.
I sometimes feel very stressed about my job, this class, and all the other things I feel like I'm forgetting to do.
I know I'm learning alot, but it seems very scattered. I'm also in a strange place without a stable base of significant friends...and that has made it hard for me (a solid 10 year support network of people lives in Ithaca, NY). I'm not going crazy, but I realize alot is going on in my head. Sometimes this course feels like a way/opportunity to process some of my thinking, and sometimes I'm not sure what I'm thinking.
Oh well. Enough. Are we still talking Paedeia (i'm trying to spell that word in as many ways as possible)?
cheers dave
i'm going to durham this weekend to book browse, see the new john waters film, and chow out with friends...but I don't want that to come too quickly. I had alot happen today in my class, and much of it very good...so, I'm basking in the afterglow of that. Want this to last into tomorrow. Friday we have early dismissal so I'm going to sprint my last lap tomorrow....got that runner's high, if you will.
My program is going a little wierd. I've got sixth, seventh, and eighth graders...and they're all studying different things in their regular classes. I want ONE thing they do in the day (math, LA, or science or social studies) to be based on a congruent lesson with similar objectives....hoping to get hold a 5 copies of a novel we can all read together and scaffold in as reader-friendly a way as possible to accomodate all learning community members.
After all, I read Great Expectations the summer of my seventh grade because I wanted to...and at Wake Forest in my Brit Lit survey. Of course, I got different things out of the book each time, but it was still possible to benefit from the read both times...why not have 6-8 graders read the same book, and possible have differing experiences concurrently?
I go for now.
Dave not new email address....I'm so happy about this...
dm50@edmail.com
Username: Eric
UserEmail: cebone@hotmail.com
Cris-I believe that you are right! It seems that the educational system that stresses equality is so heavily geared to the extremes that I believe it is the average "normal child" if you will, that gets short changed. There are so many programs to accomodate the extremes. When I taught my first year my kids were the so-called "normal" kids. They enjoyed learning by discussing and I tried to have a healthy balance of that and skill and drill. I have been in the classes where all they do is skill and drill activities and the kids could never be engaged in that setting. I have often thought that the AG kids have too many advantages. Yes, they can be challenged in different ways but average kids need that enrichment as well. I teach AG kids and I am excited each day about what I can throw at them. I work very hard to bring that enthusiasm to my academic class. They do not, however, seem to care or respond in the same way. It almost seems as though they could care less. It is discouraging! I have a difficult time motivationg them. They do not like discussion. They do not like to talk. AMAZING, I know! They seem to thrive on the drill and practice. I hate that. I hope to turn their way of thinking. Who knows! They have been trained this way. We will see.
Username: Cris
UserEmail: edcrissm@eastnet.ecu.edu
Dave, I was feeling that we sort of let you down when we didn't rise to the occasion and engage in the playmaking. You and Latorrie worked hard on that activity. And it is a valuable one. I'm looking for a text right now so my high school undergrads (drama, English, music, art, pe, science, dane) can try it out on Monday. I think the physical manipulation makes the play more accessible. The undergrads will balk, too, when they see the scissors and paste. We'll try to do better in our class, honest.
About a novel for your gr. 6 - 8. A group of my undergrads in elementary reading methods just read The Green Book by Jill Paton Walsh -- it was incredible. It's actually pretty easy reading and very accessible -- a very thin book so non-threatening. Although it's probably most often used with grades 4-6, I was amazed at how provocative it was for us. I think it has a range. Themes run from ecology/protecting our earth to the issues of power/privilege and who has it in our society. You might check it out. I'll try to think of others. Do you know Maniac Magee by Jerry Spinelli? I'm sure others will have some good suggestions . . . so are you going to try Pedaia (how's that)?
Username: dave munden
UserEmail: dm50@edmail.com
Thanks for the titles Cris. This idea fits in very nicely
with my brain theory topic, and makes me wish I'd done all this thinking sooner...this could have ended up with my own original research/observation done in my own class... especially the idea that the brain and the environment are conceptually formatted upon the same paradigm (the brain just replicates itself, right?) Everything it analyzes just gets "made in its own image," so to speak. The GREEN BOOK, hmmmm.
Eric. You're right in a way. When I first started my pedagogical training, I tutored LD kids.
This is in little Ithaca NY where there are faculty brats Cornell and kids from homes without running water (the Northern most county in NY State considered part of "appalachia"). The classes there mix like oil and water, and the tracking issue is perennial. [every school board election is peppered with the debate...Cornell profs want their child to get into Princeton, so why water down chemistry?]
I saw that publiceducation CAN reflect general societal injustices around class, race, ethnicity, et al. But public education is the source of many of our most noble initiatives in this democracy. If not here, where? I have hope that within this system of inequity, we can subvert the old paradigms and overcome. That is why I think this work is so important. But I feel like I need to meet with like-minded people and affirm this every morning (and mid-morning).
Have a good weekend and thanks for the suggestions and thoughts.
dave
Isn't this Padeeya (padaya)? This little forum we're supposed to be having here?
Username: Dave Munden
UserEmail: dm50@edmail.com
Hi Everybody. I've got my students, Ilayssa and Antoine here and they just met all of you and I explained the way we meet here online. I'm not sure what they're thinking about all of this, so why don't we let them tell us????
Hi Iam Ilayssa Basemore I just met you all on the portfolio Web site.Ienjoyed learning about you guys and how much fun you guys have in the classroom.Well that is all I have to say Bye,Bye you Guys HImy name is Antoine Billups and I just met you Guys on the web site.I liketo go to school on the web instead of riding the bus to school.I am in the 6th grade and my favorite book is "OH Brother" It is about to brothers and one of the brothers have a job delivering news papers and the other brother all ways takes the otherbrothers bike. Well that is all I have to say by. Antoine Billups BY BY BY GUYS
Username: Eric
UserEmail: cebone@hotmail.com
Hi Everyone! In taking after Dave, I have asked one of my students to come to the media center with me and type his viewpoint of seminars in the classroom. His name is Carrington. He is an exceptional student in one of my advanced classes. we have been discussing our upcoming seminar which will take place on Monday.
Hi, my name is Carrington and I am pleased to give my opinion of what seminar means for me as a student and learner. I think the purpose of seminar is to explore other people's interpretations of a piece of Literature. It is sometimes difficult to understand themes in Literature, but your peers can help define them in a seminar. It can help us understand how it relates to us. It allows you to express how you felt about a selection to others, and then you can hear how they felt. It opens the lines of communication about different pieces of Literature. Seminar helps get people excited about reading! I really learned a lot from the last seminar we had. I could see how other people analyzed the story and how it made them feel. Hearing about other people's opinions helped me form my own. After I heard from other people, I could build on my knowledge of the selection to draw better conclusions about themes woven into the story. Seminars also help you get to know how others think and feel, so you get to understand them as people better. You can actually see how fifteen people can see a story fifteen different ways. I personally love seminars. I really like giving my opinion about Literature and hearing other's ideas. I think seminars should be used all of the time! not because you do not have to take a test, but because it helps you truly understand the deep concepts in a story and it creates a real interest in the Literature. Seminars help make all subjects interesting, Concepts and ideas can be debated in Reading because there are not always right or wrong answers. Seminars really benefit the class in more ways than I can think of. It helps students become more independent because they are not dependent on the teacher for the answers. They debate them with their classmates. I think seminars are great learning experiences and they do benefit all classes. Thank you for allowing me to express my views on learning through seminar!
I am back. I believe that he sums it up for many of my students thins year. They love seminar. We are all excited about the one we will have on Monday. Also, I have mentioned the possibility of having one over the web in which they could participate. They love the idea. I would like to set up a quick cam in my class so we can have video seminars with other schools! See you all on Tuesday!
Username: Eric
UserEmail: cebone@hotmail.com
Cris- When I got home I logged onto that web addressand the chat came up immediately! There was no problem. Maybe next time. I would like to do one where my students could log on at home and participate. Could we do something with that? I know my kids would love it.
Username: Cris
UserEmail: decrissm@aol.com
Dave asked if we were engaged in a Paideia seminar. In keeping with Adler's (and we think he's still kicking and thinking and writing at 96)intent that people learn to see from different perspectives, I think we certainly are. It's wonderful to have students write in to share their perspectives on what we're doing and they are learning. Ilayssa, we are having fun learning with each other about different ways we teach. Antoine, what a coooool idea to compute rather than ride that bus. Who knows what technology will bring in terms of how schools may change? And Carrington, you write so reflectively about your experiences with Paideia. How might we use technology to make it possible for an even greater diversity of people to meet and share their various perspectives in seminars on the web? Thank you all for joining our webforum! We really enjoy hearing from you!
And speaking of how technology is changing education -- Dave, Eric -- are you guys or anyone else who might be interested-- serious about checking in on the virtual field trip at the estuary? If so, just email me at decrissm@aol.com tonight and I'll share that password.
Username: Dave Munden
UserEmail: dm50@edmail.com
Hey Cris
Thanks for writing in. Hope things down at the beach are going well. What do temperature changes do to the estuary?
Must be some interesting changes with these cool shifts of wind. We call these sudden plummettings in temp "mullet blows" where I come from.
The fish just love it!
Yes, as having people live on residential campuses becomes more costly in the future, I think these web forums will become more important...especially for those of us "lifelong" learners whose constraints of work and family prevent us from studying full time in one place. I hope this will become more common for grown ups.
When I worked at Cornell, SUNY-Buffalo and Syracuse begged us library people to get the MLS over the wires. At the time, it wasn't something that appealed to me. But what an opportunity to earn a Master's in one's field of work while working around all that practical experience expertise, resources, etc. That's kind of what we teachers are doing in READ 5317
and...much of the processing I do doesn't always occur face to face...it happens later when I'm thinking driving teaching cooking etc.
Oh well. Have a good weekend, everybody. I've taken my plants in for the winter. My big rosemary plant looks so sad...it wants more sunshine.
Hey, think compute instead of commute.!!
Much quicker and faster in our own homes.
Also, these courses would be really neat with our grade teams involved....colleagues in our own schools who are familiar with the strengths, resources, and history of our programs/campuses.
later dave I will pass on your note to Antoine and Ilayssa on Mon, Cris.
d.
Username:
UserEmail:
Hey. Did everybody discover that the dog's name was Laika?
In a Russian dictionary, as far as I could tell the word means either husky or docile???
I had trouble finding.
dave
Username: Cris
UserEmail: edcrissm@eastnet.ecu.edu
Laika? No wonder I couldn't pull it out -- I don't think I ever heard the dog's name before. You're good, Dave. Thanks for the trivia answer. Now I wonder if Laika is still alive . . . .
Username: Eric
UserEmail: cebone@hotmail.com
Will the madness ever end?????????????? Why, Why, Why?